No F.I. with the new 5.0?

[Bsmoke]

Here is an article in 5.0 magazine.
According to this... the new 5.0 CANNOT stand forced induction...

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...es_engine.html
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"Like current Mustang GT rods, Coyote connecting rods are forged from powdered metal. Optimized for reduced weight and redesigned for uniform bearing loads around the big end, the Coyote rod eliminates the 4.6 rod's balance pad. These rods are plenty strong for stock rpm and power but will not survive forced induction."
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But then later it says this in on that same page.
(by the way I am getting these from the little picture captions at the bottom)
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The coyote damper is a traditional two-piece, single-elastomer design. Most telling are the dual sheaves on an engine with nothing more than a water pump, alternator, and air conditioning compressor. Currently the inner sheave is used for the AC and the outer sheave for everything else. But it's obvious to us that the inner sheave is for a belt-driven supercharger at some future date. There is no provision for power steering as Ford has switched to electric power-assisted steering.
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Why the hell would they say this if they said the engine could not take F.I.?

THEN they go on to say this...
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"Most ominously, supercharging will require a stronger forged rod, so we expect to see those, and, no doubt, a short-block in the FRPP catalog before long. This adds a whole new layer of commitment to bolting a blower on a Coyote. We'll have to let the brave among us prove the standard Coyote rods' boost tolerance. For those planning on a rod-exchanging teardown right away, Ford says the Cobra's Manley forged rod will just fit, but you must be careful. No word on how to package a forged piston and rod combination."
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Sounds like they are trying to say it can't take it... but wait... lets wait for some people to try it and see if it can take it....

WHAT THE HELL are they trying to say?
First they say the standard rods on it CAN NOT take F.I., then they say we will have to wait to see how much boost they can take? WHAT THE HELL?

They also say this at the beginning...
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"Few hard points were fixed at the Coyote's conception, but a handful were quickly set. The new engine's point of departure was the existing 4.6 modular architecture. It would not use EcoBoost- Ford's combination of direct fuel injection and turbocharging-but it would be engineered to withstand forced induction and to package EcoBoost fuel injectors in the future."
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Again... WHAT THE HELL?
What are they saying? Are they saying it CAN or CANNNOT take F.I.?

It seems like mixed messages in this article!
Well people?
Let's hear it...
_______________

[Bsmoke]

Now I am reading this..

The Shelby's specs for the GT350 where they are using a whipple on the new 5.0
http://www.gt350.shelbyamerican.com/..._SpecSheet.pdf
I also dont see ANYTHING about internal work being done on the engine here.

It seems to me that 5.0 magazine might have made a big mess up on this article and the facts.
They also seem to contradict themselves in it.

I am VERY confused on this.
Yes F.I. with the new 5.0 or ...not without internal work that costs ALOT?

[Black_Bullitt]

I would just say don't put all your faith in one (media) source. When I read your first post I immediately thought of the GT350, and yeah, it's a blown 5.0L, or at least that's what we're lead to believe. The motor will most definitely be able to handle boost, but perhaps not copious amounts of it. Every article I've read (from what I consider reliable sources) says that the motor was overbuilt to handle the high compression, but the rods are the weak point. Not that they're 'weak', they're just not as strong as the rest of the engine components. SMS Supercars (Saleen's new shop) just introduced their 2011 line-up, one is a tweaked n/a 5.0 putting out 440hp, the other is s/c'd and puts out 535hp. (Btw, the rumors/sources I've heard put the GT350's crank hp in the 550-575 range.) Roush already has their Stage 1 & 2 lined up and are still developing their 427R (s/c). Plus there are all the rumors about the 2012 GT500 being twin turbo'd, and then we all know the BOSS 302 is coming back, and there's at least a chance it might get boosted. So yeah, I would say all signs point to the motor being able to handle FI.

[SeeingRed]

It's no different than the Machs. You can run forced induction with powdered rods...or nitrous...just have to know the limit or one of them will end up going through the side of the engine block.

[Bsmoke]

See I am like so caught up in this 5.0.

I literally do NOT like the rear ends of these new models, but I am hearing all this talk of the new 5.0 being the FIRST TRUELY great G.T.

That makes me think about trading my damn car in as much as I love it for one.
I know I'd be in debt for another six years, and I would be paying more a month than I am now (considerably more since I refinanced this one)... but if this thing is truely going to be some sort of legend classic in the future I would hate to miss the opportunity to buy one even if it did put me where I had to cut back on some other things I enjoy doing haha.

But then again... I see the old 5.0's all the time and to me they are just not legendary.
(no offense they are great but just not legendary to me).

Also I am curious about the new BOSS that will come out and what kind of a price tag it would bring. I will never be someone that can afford a 40k car so if it would be at that range or more then it would be a forget it situation for me.

I guess I do have time to think about it.
The 5.0 is not even out yet and even when it does come out I could wait a year for the pricing to go down. Then again.... I wonder how much my trade in value would go down in comparison.

And again...I am not a fan of the rear of the car at all.
I think I would get over it but I do know I will always like the body style of the
05-09's better.

The question is.. would I regret trading mine in because of how much I love it?
Or would I regret NOT trading it in because of the new power in the 5.0 and the status it seems like it may have, EVEN though it could make things tight for me for a while.

[Bsmoke]

This thing is even making it where I am thinking about holding off on getting 4.10's installed.

Especially since a couple of dealerships told me it was illegal and that if I did it I could not trade the car in.
(messing with it does something with the emmisions)

Dunno why some dealerships say it is illegal and they won't do it and some say they will do it and they have not heard that.

[SeeingRed]

This thing is even making it where I am thinking about holding off on getting 4.10's installed.

Especially since a couple of dealerships told me it was illegal and that if I did it I could not trade the car in.
(messing with it does something with the emmisions)

Dunno why some dealerships say it is illegal and they won't do it and some say they will do it and they have not heard that.

That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

[brown7]

It's no different than the Machs. You can run forced induction with powdered rods...or nitrous...just have to know the limit or one of them will end up going through the side of the engine block.



bingo i was thinking the same thing while reading.

[Mustangfreak]

Who wants to run a blower on a motor with 11:1 is what I don't get. This motor is going to love nitrous, not boost.

[Black_Bullitt]

I would. :look:

[Bsmoke]

That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard.


That is EXACTLY what I thought until three dealerships
outright refused to do the work stating the same thing.
Two in the DFW area and one in Odessa.
(This was before I talked to Neverenuff about installing them)

Here's their explanation:
Taller (4.10) GEARS would cause
the engine rpms to be higher for
any given speed so the emissions
would go up in compared to the
same vehicle with 3.55s.

The gears for the vehicles cannot be changed because they are set for each vehicle
by parameters etc. when they are made for emissions.

They also stated that
there is a warning label on the FRPP box that says it's for "off road use" only.

I am still trying to find out the definate facts on this.
If I do get them done though I will be going to Matt (Neverenuff) to get em done

[brown7]

they offered 3.73 with the cars from the factory. problem solved?

[Black_Bullitt]

That argument doesn't hold water if you ask me. Installing gears wouldn't be "illegal" so much as it might just void your warranty.

[SeeingRed]

It wouldn't even void your entire warranty (see Magnusson/Moss Act).

[SeeingRed]

Who wants to run a blower on a motor with 11:1 is what I don't get. This motor is going to love nitrous, not boost.

Ask the top fuel guys what compression they run and how much boost they're making.

[Mustangfreak]

Ask the top fuel guys what compression they run and how much boost they're making.

They're also not using powered forged rods and garbage pistons.

My diesel is high compression an is getting several pounds of boost, but the 5.0 is going to better of with nitrous than boost from the factory.

[SeeingRed]

I'm sure it will be...just like the Machs which are 10.5:1 compression with powdered metal rods...but that doesn't keep people from running blowers and turbos on the stock bottom end and only about 6-10 PSI which can be done reliably.

[CobraChuck]

My '96 has 100K miles, powdered rods, and is handling 7psi on a 2.1 KB. Only difference is, my compression is 9.85:1, not 11:1. IMO, you could do it at 6-7psi but you'd have to run race fuel